hi, have just updated my 10.3.3 with the latest security update, and now my G4 will not boot up, it all seems fine until it gets to the final part, where it just hangs on "login window starting". Have run disk repair/permission utilities from Cds but still no start. The update did seem to take much longer than my other machines.... any ideas on getting past this login window.

thanks

I have also done a fsck -f in safe boot, this still hasnt fixed the problem

The fsck command I remembered as -y, and not -f. Perhaps this is the reason.
Also, since you obviously know how to access DU when booteed from the installer CD, then why didn't you use FA - it's exactly the same command as fsck only wrapped in GUI clothing!
Do it multiple times if it fails initially with Repair mode.

Hopefully that'll work - if not, then time to A&I (archive and install - keeps your User account untouched) and then update back up to X.3.3 when you're ready/happy all's well again with the Mac.

Should've also mentioned you could try the PMU reset (KBase article #14449) before the DU FA and A&I to see if that fixes it first.

What is "FA"?

I had this same exact problem with that security update. However, I thought that my problems originated from the fact that during the update, my PowerBook's faulty power cord failed and the machine shut off prematurely during the "Optimizing" phase of the install. (See my previous post and its thread here.)

The "Optimizing" phase is when the installer updates the 'prebinding' of various applications. I'm no Unix guru, just a simple Mac guy, but from what I understand, the prebindings are the links between applications and the 'libraries' in the System folder and Library folder (and also, I am guessing, in the invisible Unix directories on the drive that can only be accessed from within the Terminal or using the Finder's command-shift-G "Go to Folder..." command). If the system shuts off during this "Optimizing" phase, then one would assume that not only would the prebindings necessarily be incomplete, but also, more generally, because the computer was turned off suddenly, there could be directory damage or even physical damage to the disk.

Like the previous poster, I initially tried fsck after an 'open-apple'-S boot, but it did not work. I don't know if I tried the proper modifiers or not, but isn't it the same as just running Disk Utility from the installer disk? Neither fsck nor Disk Utility found any errors.

I also ran Norton 8.0.0, found major problems, and "repaired" them, but nothing got better -- maybe it even made things worse. Next I tried MicroMat's utility, which also found major problems and fixed them, but still, I kept hanging at the "Login Window" loading phase of bootup.

Figuring that perhaps the problem was just the prebindings, I tried repairing my prebinding in Single-User boot mode using the "update_prebinding -root / -force" command, but it wouldn't work, even when I write-enabled the drive. I tried putting the PowerBook in FireWire target disk mode, and running update_prebinding on it from another computer, and it actually seemed to be working -- that is, until it stopped prematurely due to an unspecified error. In any case, update_prebinding was unsuccessful even with the files it acted on before the error.

After all this, my computer still wouldn't boot in OS X, hanging in the same place over and over and over. I would let it sit there for ten, twenty, thirty minutes just to make sure it wasn't just being slow. It booted fine in OS 9, however, and the disk utilities continued to verify that the directory and volume headers were OK.

As a last resort, I did an "archive and install" of Panther 10.3, deleted my "Receipts", then ran Software Update until nothing new remained to be installed. This time, the latest security update installed without a hitch, and the computer booted fine without hanging.

But something was still very, very wrong with the drive. Applications that used to work fine would not boot. The screen would totally freeze and I would have to hard-restart with command-control-power-key.

I wondered if perhaps Norton 8.0.0 messed it up, since I have heard 8.0.1 or 8.0.2 is out? At the moment, before I resort to just reformatting the whole drive (which has been fine since I got the PowerBook in Nov. 2001), I am currently running DiskWarrior (which I just got, and should have tried before the Archive and Install) to see if that helps things.

I hope that it fixes the drive, and that I will be able to restore the archived "Previous System" that was created when I ran "Archive and Install".

-=DG=-

Oh, BTW, I tried the PMU reset and, although it successfully reset my PMU, it didn't fix the problem at all.

I did this, because I thought that my problem might have been caused by a self-powered Belkin FireWire hub that a guy had previously given me, because he was having some weird problems with it that were specific to his particular third-party hardware configuration, but didn't sound like they would affect mine. He told me about some kind of weird FireWire reset command he had to do from the Unix prompt... but I don't remember what it was, nor does it seem likely (?) that this would be related to the Security Update issue...

-=DG=-

FA - First Aid. Sorry for the abbreviation, thought it may have been already teaching a duck how to swim!
Run the Verify a few times and see what (if anything) happens.
Failing that, it might be time to call in the BBT (big boy's tools) - TTP4/DW/SW 3 (Micromat/Alsoft/Symantec respectively)

Having read many Apple support documents on apple.com since the last post, I have realized that there are many things that I didn't try that could have been fixed the problem (besides running the various disk utilities). Here are some links to the most useful ones, which for many of you is like "duhhhh", but maybe someone could find these breadcrumbs useful:

"Troubleshooting installation and software updates"
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106692
> > >
Installation fails during "optimization"
If the installation fails during "optimization," all of the software was installed. There is no risk of an "incomplete installation." The optimization phase of an installation only affects performance and not stability or features. You may force optimization to be repeated by reinstalling the software. If you were using the Software Update pane of System Preferences on the first attempt, you will need to download the standalone installer of the same software from Apple Downloads in order to reinstall the software.
< < <

"Your Mac Won't Start Up in OS X"
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=n106464
Lots of good info in here... talks alot about moving preferences out of the System folder and trying again.

"Mac OS X: How to troubleshoot a software issue"
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=25398
> > >
If the issue does not appear to be related to preferences, a login item, or a kext file, and persists in Safe Mode, there may be an issue with acache file in your home folder:

Go to ~/Library
Drag the Caches folder to the desktop.
Attempt to reproduce the issue.
If issue is resolved, drag the Caches folder to the Trash.
If issue persists, go to /Library.
Drag the Caches folder to the desktop.
Attempt to reproduce the issue.
If issue is resolved, drag the Caches folder to the Trash.
If issue persists, go to step 4.

Tip: The Caches folder is similar to the Preference folder in that each time an application is opened, a new file is written. It is not necessary to troubleshoot these files.
< < <

"Update and Before You Install Information"
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106300
> > >
If you experience a power outage or other interruption during a software update installation, you should download the standalone installer from Apple Software Updates and reinstall it. "Optimizing" refers to the execution of a process called "update_prebinding," which allows applications to open faster by precalculating the address information of system data the applications use. This optimization is performed on the Mac OS X startup disk when Apple updates certain system components. Though update_prebinding may be executed manually, it is not necessary to use it at any other time.
< < <

"About the Archive and Install Feature"
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=107120
At the bottom it has links to a lot more.

There was also an article that talked about moving the /Library/Caches and ~/Library/Caches folders to the desktop to help solve problems. In that vein, I also thought maybe this is worth a shot:

"OS X Odyssey 337 - Desktop Rebuilds and RebuildDesktopX 1.0"
http://www.applelinks.com/articles/2003/06/20030604110107.shtml
> > >
Then there's SubRosaSoft's RebuildDesktopX, a freeware utility for cleaning various caches on OSX that store information relating to the application binding, icons, etc. Not exactly the same as the old Desktop rebuilds in Classic, but probably worth running once in a while, especially since it's freeware.

For the UNIX literate, this program executes the following commands;
/bin/rm ~/Library/Caches/com.apple.LaunchServices.UserCache.csstore
/bin/rm /Library/Caches/com.apple.LaunchServices.LocalCache.csstore
/bin/sync
/bin/reboot
< < <

Hopefully one of those things would solve the problem, rather than having to do an "Archive and Install". Part of the transition from OS 9 I suppose is learning where the preferences and things are that can be the first place to look when problems crop up, at least, if disk repairs don't do the trick.

-=DG=-

I also had "login window starting" hanging. Disk Utility/Disk Repair from the install cd found errors that it could not fix. Since I don't have DW/etc I saved an image of the volume to another partition, erased the volume and restored the image back. Now the Disk Repair was happy. Rebooting, the problem was the same though. I started in single user (cmd-S), looked at the system log (more /var/log/system.log), saw that loginwindow kept dying, then checked /Library/Logs/CrashReporter/loginwindow.crash.log. It was complaining about a missing dependency (/System/Library/Frameworks/AppleTalk.framework/...). And effectively, this AppleTalk.framework folder was empty. Copied it from another machine, and now everything works fine.

This happened some time after the security update, but I had been using Software Update in between. It probably broke my file system at some point, and I lost the above mentioned files. You might have other files missing, but I just want to illustrate it is (sometimes) possible to recover without reinstalling.

In general I have had several bad experiences with Software Update (maybe it just stresses my old hardware too much and some things get corrupted). I use separate downloads and combo updates as much as possible instead.

Tormod_