I have generally preferred the Newer cards, but, of course, they're not making them any more and
most support is handled by Sonnet. The main reason I preferred them is that some code that's
needed to make the caches work properly at boot time is in a ROM on the card whereas other cards
used either extension drivers (which load late--so they hoped it would be OK until it got there)
or NVRAM patches. NVRAM is touchy (especially in 9.2.x and depending on your PCI card load/configuration)
and is fiddled with a lot by systems other than MacOS; I run different things on my machine.
The downside of the ROM is that, of course, if a fix was needed, you'd need to ship the card back.
But that hasn't seemed to have been necessary--or at least I haven't read anything. I struggled
early on with a Powerlogix G3 when they first came out, then went to a Newer G3 and other than
the shipping wait it was problem free. The G4 has been more problematic, but is pretty stable even
with a lot of other things changing around it once it worked. I had one with a bad jumper that
needed to be resoldered out of warranty, but I picked up a couple of the last ones that were
made so hopefully I won't need any before the machine is eventually replaced. Note that my
machine configuration and requirements are probably not those of the typical user.

I haven't tried using the SCSI CDRW (Yamaha 4/2/6) much either in X or 9 (worked in 9 the last time
I knew); I mostly use a Pioneer DVR-A03 on firewire because it's faster, albeit somewhat tempermental.

Thanks for pointing out the site. I'd not run across it before.-kby

CopyAgent 1.0.1 (from Connectix) seems to have a problem with 9.2.2 on Oldworld Mac. I can't tell if it's Applescript or not, since it won't load without Applescript. SYMPTOM: move an icon on the desktop and the finder quits (or crashes). REPRODUCIBLITY: 100%. ConflictCatcher helped me narrow it down - removing it makes the problem go away. (waah! I depend on CopyAgent for verified copies and easy unidirectional file synchronization) .

Anyone else with comments or help for this?

My PowerTowerPro Sonnet g4/800 Radeon 7000 with miroMotion DC30+ OrangeMicro FW/USB (newer rev), (more elaborated on 9600legacy's Sonnet g4/800 Radeon 7000 thread).

kby,

I also occasionally get to use a Pioneer DVR-A03 on firewire --- what did you mean by temperamental?
Those DVD-R's aren't cheap -- I just HATE data underruns.

Ya know, I can't remember what I had specifically in mind. I probably successfully burn something about 60%
(DVDs) of the time, but the failures aren't any particular thing--sometimes a system freeze after starting the burn. I
am pretty sure it's a combination of my very complicated setup and/or the particular OrangeMicro FW/USB2 card
I'm using. It seems to work better if I power the drive on just before starting, but that's mostly anecdotal.

Did you remember to update your Firewire Suppport extension with the patched one (in regard to you CopyAgent issues)?
This would affect any carbonized application, at least.-kby

Hello to all MacFixit guests and members of this "OldWorld thread".
Glad to see that many are now running our fruit of labour, hacked OS9.22 in OldWorld machine.

I think I may be the best one to respond to 9600legacy's question cos' my configuration is almost identical to his:
PowerMac 9600/300 with Sonnet Crescendo/PCI G4 800MHz
Memory: 896MB (128MB x 4 + 64MB x 6) all interleaved
Internal fastSCSI: IBM 4GB HD (OS 9.1 installed) and Pioneer U04 SCSI DVD-ROM
Slot 1: ATI Radeon Mac Edition - nearest the CPU
Slot 2: Wired4DVD (run in OS 9 only)
Slot 3: RealTek-based 10/100 LAN card
Slot 4: Acard PCI Ultra ATA133 with an IBM 45GB HD (OSX 10.23 installed) as master, IBM 120GB HD as slave
Slot 5: Apple/ATTO Ultra2 SCSI PCI card (updated to ATTO's ExpressPCI PSC latest firmware v1.66) connected with two IBM 9GB 68pins ultrawide HDs (hacked OS 9.22 on one drive) and a 50pins ultraSCSI Yamaha 16x10x40x CDRW
Slot 6: OrangeLink USB1.1/FW combo card (connect to a laser printer, a scanner, and SuperDisk drive via a USB hub)

The Sonnet upgrade was put in place of the XLR8 CarrierZIF G3/450 which also supports OSX. I have tried to swap it with a XLR8 G4/500 CPU which runs well in OS 9 but always hangs on booting to OSX.

I can confirm that Sonnet's Cresendo drivers (2.01 and 2.0.2) support OS 9.22.

However, I find no conflict with ATI's October updated drivers in either OS9.1 or hacked OS9.22 with QuickTime 6.02 installed. My ATI extensions are:
ATI 3D Accelerator 5.04
ATI Desktop Video Extension 1.5
ATI Extension 2.87
ATI Graphics Accelerator 5.65
ATI Radeon 3D Accelerator 6.46
ATI Resource Manager 3.14
ATI ROM Xtender 1.13
ATI Video Accelerator 4.87
OpenGLLibrary 1.25
OpenGLRendererATI 1.33
QuickDraw3D RAVE 1.81
Windows resizing and icon dragging are perfect and fast. No crashing at all. I would suspect U may have RAM problems. Do some overnight RAM check or deinterleave the RAMs.

I always keep a lean and mean extension folder by disabling unneeded ones. My OS9.1 System Folder is an exact copy of the hacked OS9.22 System Folder with all the updated components except that the corresponding 9.1 System file and Finder file are put in.

Besides, I also drop in the latest Mac OS ROM file (mine is v9.31 from a PowerBook G4/800 but I hear the latest is version 9.5 shipped with the new mirror-drive door PowerMacs) into the System Folder. Supposedly it is not required for the OldWorld machine and the OS9 system will run without them. However, I find that once they are put in, the ROM file would be in use and you can't trash it from the active System Folder. Whether some patch-in routines from the Mac OS ROM file will help in the stabilty of the hacked system is beyond my conjecture but it does seem so.

My OSX 10.2.3 is installed with help of xPostFacto 2.24. It works beautifully with the Sonnet OSX Tune-up 1.25 but U need to reinstall all xPostFacto extensions back after the Sonnet update, otherwise OSX might not boot as some files are over-written. Do remember to put the ATI ROM Xtender file into /System/Library/AppleNDRV folder. Quartz Extreme in accelerating windows drawing is off by default. Although U can turn it on with PCI Extreme v2.0 and confirm it by QuartzExtremeCheck v1.1, there is not much speed gain and the system is more prone to crash with forever spinning rainbow cursor. That's my experience.

And FYI, the latest USB extension in OS9 that can support USB devices in OldWorld machines is version 1.56. Any latter version like v1.59 that comes with newer PowerMacs will simply not work. I don't know whether it works better than the more commonly available v1.41.

My latest project is swapping the old OrangeLink combo card with the Sonnet ATA 133/Firewire-USB2 Trio combo card for connection to a Pioneer DVR-A04 writer. Sonnet's card (and ?SGII) uses Promise chip which registers the connected devices as SCSI in OS9 but ATA in OSX as compared to aCard's (SCSI in both systems). This will make the DVR recognisable by iDVD for DVD writing in OSX.

Hope my feedback help

Kenny

I have a Umax C600 with an installed Sonnet Crescendo/L2 G3. 64 meg ram, running System 8.6.
Can I upgrade all the way to System 9.2 ?

Anything I should be cautious about ?

Since this seems to be the last post directly refering to 6100 machines, I elected to address my problem in a reply to this post. I have a 6115CD with a Sonnet Crescendo G3 accelerator with OS9.1 currently installed. I am interested in installing OS 9.2.2 in order to continue using MSN Messenger, which Microsoft recently made unaccessible to those running OS 9.0-9.1 and below. I noted that OS9Forever's patches do not support 6100 NuBus Macs. I've read about the Old World patching procedure that you helped develop and noted that it says limited success has been achieved with 6100 machines. I only have a 4.3 gb hard drive and am sure I don't have room to partition and install 9.1 to experiment on. Is there another alternative? Also what is the 6100 shutdown problem that I have seen referred to on here? Or will OS9Forever ever be updated to support 6100 Macs? Thank You

Hello people I'm new to this forum so go easy on me

I've got MacOS 9.2.2 installed on my Powermac 5500/225 (no upgrades) using os9helper with no problems at all - it's a heck of a lot faster than 8.6! Even in 32mb RAM.I wanna try to get MacOS X 10.0 on it... any ideas? (and where to get really cheap EDO DIMMs for it in the UK....)

I'm also trying to get 9.2.1 and 9.2.2 onto my brother's Powermac 8100/80 w/G3 300 and 72MB ram in. 9.1 goes on fine, but even with os9helper set to NuBUS it still cries saying the update won't run. MachID set to 510 partially helps (and replacing the IncompatHW file with Welcome) but when it comes to the actual installing, it starts to check, then it just bombs itself back to 'press go to update' screen and reloads the Finder.

The various update patchers mentioned elsewhere in the forum just say cannot update - files don't match (data fork).

Any ideas?

dtw213

Power Macintosh 5500/225 (in black..) 2GB HDD (IDE), 2GB SCSI HDD (in box) 32MB RAM 12x SCSI CD-ROM

No experience here with OS 9.x on unsupported machines, but I doubt you'll have much luck installing OS X on a 5500. Even XPostFacto doesn't work on that vintage.

dtw213,

I would not recommend using OS X with anything less than a G4 in a non supported machine. Maybe the faster bus speeds on the supported G3 computers makes a difference there, but you would not be happy with the performance. (then again, Apple did settle with some G3 owners that tried OS X and were not happy)

I installed Jaguar on my 8600 with a G3/300 upgrade but found it to be ALOT slower than OS 9 even with 320mb RAM. I lived with it for about a year but have finally put in a G4/800 and am now happy with the performance.