My fear exactly, namely, that Apple is trying to limit the copying capability of their Music Store product.

I have this morning put into the hands of a neighbor a CD containing one Music Store song from one of their Inkspot albums. He is to report back on its playability on his stereo.

I have not tried approaching Apple. What is the best approach & to whom or what support body? After hearing back from my friend (negatively I fear) I will be ready to go to the Apple Mountain for answers.

Many thanks for your support. I will report back on MacFixit whatever I find out.

If your friend's CD player (a fairly modern one hopefully) can't play the CD, then there is a bug or some sort of error happening somewhere.

However... if your friend's CD player can play the CD, then Apple is simply clamping down on iTMS music 'sharing'.

The idea -- strictly a theory conjectured in my head so far -- is this:

Somewhere in the header of these CD audio tracks may reside a few unused bits (reserved perhaps for some unknown future usage). If Apple (and possibly Microsoft, etc. as well) wanted to, they could easily use a bit or two to mark if the CD track came from an online purchase... and choose not to permit the *computer* to play that track... from the CD.

The argument being that: the track already exists in iTunes (supposedly), and if one wants to play the track (or list) on their Mac (or iPod), one doesn't need the CD to do that. Meanwhile, ordinary devices like home, portable or car players will still play the CD just fine... so "fair use" is preserved.

The goal of all this being to stop online purchases from being re-rippable, and passed along -- ad infinitum -- from user to user. Once burned to CD, only players can access them. (I'm ignoring DAT recorders and various CD duplication equipment for the moment, because only "pros" use those).

Like I said: this is merely some possible scenario I have dreamed up... but it wouldn't surprise me at all if it were to be true (if not here and now, then someday soon).

-HI-


edit: If anyone's thinking "Hey, how would I backup my music then?", the answer is simple... the same way you back up any file on your Mac: copy the AACs to some other location, and store them safely. (We don't 'backup' our text files by _converting_ them to PDFs onto CD... do we?)

1) The stereo did not play the song I provided.

>>> If your friend's CD player (a fairly modern one hopefully) can't play the CD, then there is a bug or some sort of error happening somewhere. <<<

2) I reach the conclusion that Apple wants it that way. That way I understand to mean:

A) It wants a purchased Music Store album to be duplicable up to 7 times on a CD. My experience is that it does do this.

B) It does not want any indivdual song from any purchased Music Store album to be duplicable. My experience is that I cannot duplicate any individual song from a Music Store album.

3) I may be wrong. But it absolutely positively will be known to Apple whether I am right or wrong.

4) Therefore, before I start chasing any mysterious glitches, I want to hear from the mighty Apple support people.

Addenda:

1) When a Music Store album (read also as "playlist") is burned it metamorphs from AAC format into AIFF (playable as an audio file) . See GET INFO on ITunes to see this phenomenon.

2) When one attempts to convert an individual AAC song file from AAC one is advised as follows: " [This song] could not be converted because protected files cannot be converted to other formats."

> B) It does not want any indivdual song from any purchased Music Store album to be duplicable.
> My experience is that I cannot duplicate any individual song from a Music Store album.

"duplicable"? "duplicate"?

When discussing the issue here, let's clearly distinguish between burning audio to CD and converting files via the Advanced menu. One is allowed (and always has been), the other is DISallowed (and always has been).

Naww, you should have no problem burning anything to CD, so long as the playlist repetition limit has not been exceeded.



> 1) When a Music Store album (read also as "playlist") is burned it metamorphs from AAC format
> into AIFF (playable as an audio file) . See GET INFO on ITunes to see this phenomenon.

Yes, if you burn an Audio CD, that is indeed the case (not exactly news either). Now, do you mean the album becomes one huge AIFF? Or is it several AIFFs (one for each track)?



> 2) When one attempts to convert an individual AAC song file from AAC one is advised as follows:
> " [This song] could not be converted because protected files cannot be converted to other formats."

Right. And that too has always been the case, ever since iTMS went online over a year ago. (No eureka moment there either).

We should stick to iTunes' jargon to avoid further confusion. So yes 'playlist' is much preferred to 'album' when discussing a burn. ('Album' is suitable when discussing a download, if it applies).

The only way I know to burn an audio CD is to first create a playlist... and then burn that. (I often go so far as to double-click the playlist, so it opens up into its own window, before clicking the burn icon).

It's extremely unlikely Apple would not allow us to burn CDs with mixed AACs, etc., as you describe. I -- and probably 95% of their customers -- don't buy albums at all, but rather individual songs... exclusively.

Hmmmm. Now, if what you're suggesting is that -- by purchasing an album in its entirety -- there's some mechanism involved which subsequently prevents you from extracting individual songs out of that album, for custom playlist burning purposes... I would hope that's highly unlikely too (though not impossible perhaps). But -- with over 650 iTMS songs under my belt -- and not a single album in the bunch... I can't say for sure. I simply have never bought an "album"... ever.

Sure sounds like there's a "glitch" somewhere though. And I'm going to stick with 'single-song purchase' downloads, so I won't ever have to learn the answer by experience.



-HI-


Addendum: If it turns out that the snafu here is that albums are 'packaged' so strictly that single songs inside them can't be employed when burning custom playlists, then AAC per se is not the mysterious foe... and the solution is to always download songs individually (if that matters). Amen?

In reply to:

---

Addendum: If it turns out that the snafu here is that albums are 'packaged' so strictly that single songs inside them can't be employed when burning custom playlists, then AAC per se is not the mysterious foe... and the solution is to always download songs individually (if that matters). Amen?

---

That's an interesting thought. When iTMS first opened and the burn limit was announced, Apple stated that one could still burn copies of purchased music by creating a different playlist. For example, burn the playlist of songs A, B, C the allowable maximum number of times, then burn songs from a new playlist with A, B, C, D or A, B only.

I have never tried it since most of my purchases are individual tracks and not albums as well.

Update on my post above:

I have one collection of iTMS songs that I did purchase as an album. I created a new playlist in iTunes with just two of the songs from this album. I burned this playlist. iTunes quit unexpectedly! Tried again and iTunes froze, requiring a hard restart!!

I suspected the CD was to blame, so I tried again with a new blank and there were no problems. The two songs burned, the CD played from within iTunes and played on a home CD player.

Me thinks the problem lies with the original poster's burner or something internal to that system and/or setup.

>>> "duplicable"? "duplicate"? <<<

“Duplicable” according to the RANDOM HOUSE COLLEGE DICTIONARY, to which I referred before using the word.
Neither WEBSTER’S COLLEGIATE nor THE OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY recognizes duplicable or duplicatable. A bit of a surprise.

>>> Naww, you should have no problem burning anything to CD, so long as the playlist repetition limit has not been exceeded. <<<

I don’t have any trouble burning anything to CD. Trouble is some tracks won’t play after burning. Read on.

>>> one huge AIFF? Or is it several AIFFs (one for each track)? ><<<

One for each track.

?>>> don't buy albums at all, but rather individual songs... exclusively. <<<

My purchases are usually of albums. First, with respect to classical music my target is usually the artist, composer or orchestra, not just the song. Second, my purchases of popular music are from songs that have survived the test of time. My time was the 30’s to the 60’s when outfits like Benny Goodman, Count Basie et al and artists like Sinatra, Crosby, Ella Fitzgerald & the Inkspots ruled the roost. There seldom is any song from these albums that I do not want, so my cost per song is probably closer th $0.65. I suspect I am older than you, so our preferences may not be the same. I look forward to a birthday card from you on August 16th, as that will be my 85th.

>>> if what you're suggesting is that -- by purchasing an album in its entirety -- there's some mechanism involved which subsequently prevents you from extracting individual songs out of that album, for custom playlist burning purposes... I would hope that's highly unlikely too (though not impossible perhaps). <<<

That is exactly what I have been saying. I am not speculating. It is factual. I am trying to find out WHY.

>>> Addendum: If it turns out that the snafu here is that albums are 'packaged' so strictly that single songs inside them can't be employed when burning custom playlists, then AAC per se is not the mysterious foe... and the solution is to always download songs individually (if that matters). Amen? <<<

I am going to repeat myself. After downloading (ITunes calls it IMPORTING, their jargon, not mine) a SINGLE song from the Music Store I started a new playlist and put that song into it, all by its lonely self, a playlist of a single AAC formatted song. ITunes did not allow me to change from the AAC format. I burned this into an audio CD.The track will not play.

Final note for the day: Before the recent introduction of ITunes 4.5 and QuickTime 6.5.1 songs and albums of songs were imported in MP3 format and NONE OF THIS TROUBLE WAS EXPERIENCED. I am finding it hard to believe that ITunes & QT are not the cause and suspect that Apple has made a deliberate move here. If I am dealing with a glitch I sure as the dickens would like to know what it is.

Ira L writes:
> I have one collection of iTMS songs that I did purchase as an album.
> I created a new playlist in iTunes with just two of the songs from this album.
[ . . . ]
> The two songs burned, the CD played from within iTunes and played on a
> home CD player.

OKAY! Sorry I have no blank CDs at the moment to confirm all this. Just for the record, were you running OSX 10.3.4 and iTunes 4.5 and QuickTime 6.5.1 when doing that test... or what?

--

LarreeBee writes:
> One for each track.

That is also good news, and lines up well with Ira's successful accounting.



> I suspect I am older than you, so our preferences may not be the same.
> I look forward to a birthday card from you on August 16th, as that will
> be my 85th.

Well we're both Leos... but perhaps that's a source of friction at times.

I would probably like more of your iTunes than you mine. The Artie Shaw and Ella Fitzgerald I have were bought on CDs (as was my meager classical collection), but I did grab a few Glenn Miller and Sinatra cuts from iTMS (including "Snootie Little Cutie" with Tommy Dorsey). But yes, you're senior... even to my Dad!



> I am finding it hard to believe that ITunes & QT are not the cause and
> suspect that Apple has made a deliberate move here. If I am dealing
> with a glitch I sure as the dickens would like to know what it is.

I think something went amiss during your upgrade. A new playlist with iTMS songs should burn and play with no problem. (I know it seemed irrelevant, but perhaps a burn speed of 2X might improve the results. I know the other non-iTMS cuts had no problem, but like I said "software bugs don't have to make sense").

Unfortunately, I don't know how to proceed at this point. Seems like I need to ask about repairing permissions, fsck the HD, creating a new user account... etc. If I can locate a blank CD to test, I'll do that. (Trying to stay light for now, as I'm still in the process of moving).

Lurkers, we need some more heads in this thread.

-HI-

I dropped down to 2x from 8X. Same result.

I keep Skinny (my 15" flat panel IMac with 60 GB of HD & 512 MB of RAM) clean with current use of OnyXz, DW, TT Pro, DFA & Repair Permissions. This computer is as nearly trouble free as can be (which is a far cry from the old days of OS 9 and the early days of OS X).

My problem of burning a playable CD from imported AAC Music Store songs is only with individual songs (whether the individual songs are imported as part of an album or individually). I have tried importing individual songs AAC songs with AIFF encoding, Apple Lossless & MP3 without success.

I am going to try a different USER account and I am going to try using ABS (my ABS Plus external HD which is a full duplicate of Skinny. I will report back.