I just wanted to add to this thread that I have never had any problems burning audio CD's directly from iTunes (no Toast) using any of my ITMS bought music or any of my imported CD music collection. I have yet to come across a CD/DVD player that refuses to play the discs with the exception of my own Yamaha DVD changer which refuses to play any burned media of any kind from any source.

(It is with hesitation that I even post this part)
When you burn an audio CD from ITMS bought music, you are in fact stripping the DRM code (copy protection) from the file. It is possible to burn an Audio CD with ITMS bought songs, and then import the burned CD back to iTunes replacing the DRM coded bought music files with music files with no copy protection. However, this will only work when you are burning an Audio formatted CD.

Also, it should be noted that an Audio CD with ITMS bought songs can only be burned the requisite number of times when arranged in the same playlist. When you change the playlist you can burn the song again.

I keep my iTunes preferences as follows:

Preferred speed: maximum possible
Disc format: Audio CD
Gap between songs: 2 seconds

I note that you have tried using Toast and iTunes to burn an audio CD without success. Have you considered trying a different brand of recordable media? As many will attest, certain brands of media will work better with certain models of the Superdrive and with different models of external burners. Also, what brands may work fine as a data CD will not necessarily work well when burned as an audio CD.

I personally have had great success with Circuit City generic brand CDs and with Memorex CDs. My PowerMac G4 has a Pioneer DVR-105 superdrive built-in.

HTH

I never had any trouble either --- until after the upgrade to ITunes 4.5 & QT 6.5.1.

Have you imported songs AFTER these upgrades & continued to have no trouble with INDIVIDUAL ITMS songs?

How do you explain Apple's apparent belief that it needed the Help file I have quoted above?

Through this entire thread I am not trying to prove myself "right" for the sake of being right.

I want is to understand how to do something.

P.S. I have not tried another kind of media, but as you can see, I have been up & down every other road suggested in an effort to understand. Eventually I hope Apple will get into this act. Perhaps in you position as a Mac Guru you know how to get their response on this question.

Have you imported songs AFTER these upgrades & continued to have no trouble with INDIVIDUAL ITMS songs?

Just to be clear, I am not sure what you mean by "importing" but my answer is yes in any case. If you mean have I transferred a commercial music CD to my iTunes library by importing it, then yes I have. I imported one commercial CD just after upgrading and it went smoothly. If you mean have I burned any Audio format CDRs with iTunes then the answer is also yes. I've burned somewhere in the neighborhood of half a dozen Audio CDs since upgrading iTunes and Quicktime without any problems. These include at least one CD that was exclusively ITMS songs and the others were mixed ITMS songs as well as preexisting songs in my iTunes library.

How do you explain Apple's apparent belief that it needed the Help file I have quoted above?

The distinction is that the help file you quoted is strictly related to Data CDs and DVDs to be used for backup purposes. The Audio CD format is what is required for playing your music on CD players. And by CD players I mean any Computer CD or DVD player in as well as those found in cars and home stereo systems. The following is a snippet from iTunes help specifically related to Audio CDs:

"If your computer has an internal CD-RW drive or SuperDrive, you can make your own audio CDs containing the songs you add to a playlist. (Some external CD burners may also work with iTunes.) You can listen to the audio CDs you create in iTunes in most consumer CD players and on your computer.

iTunes converts the songs to standard audio files before writing them to the CD. You can fit about 74 minutes of music, or about 20 songs, on a 650 MB CD-R disc. Some discs allow 80 minutes (700 MB) of music."

Eventually I hope Apple will get into this act. Perhaps in you position as a Mac Guru you know how to get their response on this question.

Unfortunately, I and all of the other moderators here at MFIF have as much standing with Apple as you do... in other words, we are just customers like everyone else. Although there have been more than a few times that I would have loved to have their ear over the years...

>>> Just to be clear, I am not sure what you mean by "importing" but my answer is yes in any case. <<<

IMPORTING is what you find under ITunes Preferences. There I have under IMPORTING, for present purposes, chosen AIFF which will play on almost anyone's apparatus anywhere.

To carry the example further, I have gone to the Music Store and clicked BUY for one song from a Dean Martin album (LET ME GO LOVER).

Now I own the song in my Library.

I click GET INFO and I find that in spite of my choice this song is NOT AIFF, but "Protected AAC audo file."

Nonetheless I set myself up under ITunes Preferences BURNING for "Audio CD."

Now I say BURN. But there is no BURN anywhere on my ITunes Super Drive. There is only BROWSE. I CANNOT BURN.

I will not go further though I can tell you that I can use TOAST and BURN, but it will not result in a stereo playable file.


>>> The distinction is that the help file you quoted is strictly related to Data CDs and DVDs to be used for backup purposes. The Audio CD format is what is required for playing your music on CD players.

If you have ITunes 4.5 and QT 6.5.1 and you do EXACTLY what I have just done above, I would like to know your experience. ( I want to assure you that the songs archived on the Data CD will play back on that CD -- they are not just data files.)

Hold everything.

I have just repeated the exercise above & it has resulted in a stereo playable song starting from Audio CD. I have repeated this at least a dozen times earlier with a dozen CD-R's in the wastebasket. I produced one --- now. What other than my upgrade to OS 10.3.4 can have gotten me over the hill I cannot guess. The Dean Martin CD played OK on a small Sony portable. Again. Amen.

I suppose I sound like a bit of a nut case, but I have put together over 1,700 songs in my ITunes Library, one fourth of which have come from Apple's Music Store. I enjoy giving an occasional CD with mixed songs to friends & after upgrading to ITunes 4.5 & QT 6.5.1 I was shut down. Why I may never know. I HOPE this is the end of this chapter.

> I produced one --- now.
> I suppose I sound like a bit of a nut case

Not at all.

I can offer a good guess. The prefs for iTunes (or something somewhere) got gunked up. Having the burn pref sitting there at Audio CD sure looked good, but --internally-- iTunes was in some other mode.

The fact that you _changed_ it to Data CD... and then later deliberately _reverted_ back to Audio CD, jogged iTunes out of its haze... and the Audio CD setting finally took hold. Make sense? (either Yes or No is the *right* answer).




--


> IMPORTING is what you find under ITunes Preferences. There I have under IMPORTING,
> for present purposes, chosen AIFF which will play on almost anyone's apparatus anywhere.

Hear me now and believe me later... you almost certainly do NOT want (or need) that setting to be at AIFF. Seriously LB. Leave it at AAC until you understand how it works. (And even then you'll want to leave it at AAC, or perhaps MP3... but practically never AIFF).

> To carry the example further, I have gone to the Music Store and clicked BUY
> for one song from a Dean Martin album (LET ME GO LOVER). Now I own the
> song in my Library.
> I click GET INFO and I find that in spite of my choice this song is NOT AIFF,
> but "Protected AAC audo file."

Somewhere in iTunes' help (I don't have any idea where), they have managed to confuse the meaning of the word "importing" to the extent that -- no matter how many times I tell you -- it just doesn't get through.

Will red bold all-caps help?

IMPORTING HAS **NOTHING** TO DO WITH DOWNLOADING SONGS OR BURNING AUDIO. N_O_T_H_I_N_G_!



Protected AAC is the ONLY thing (for now) that iTMS sells. Period. AND... they don't want users to be able to convert them -- right on their computers -- to anything else. NADA. What we can do is burn CDs... which does convert the protected AACs to CD format (16-bit, 44.1 KHz, PCM digital audio). All this has been true since the iTMS went online in May of 2003.

Yes... things are getting tighter. QuickTime 6.5.1 has restricted 3rd-party apps such as Toast (and several others), so they can no longer "open" iTMS music like they could before.

I hope this helps.

Post Mortem:

Toast as noted still will not work. However, going the Data route one can end run Apple and make it work. A straight forward burn using Apple is the simple choice.

An earlier coment I believe to be wrong. While albums are limited to 7 times, a CD made of random ITMS songs can handle any single song more than 7 times, unlimited apparently.

Now that the stray electrons have gotten back into their cribs I most certainly will get off the muscle bound AIFF files.

Well, I'm glad LarreeBee is able to burn again. Just to add clarification to the "limit of 7"—a burn list of iTMS selections is limited to 7 times, not necessarily an album, although a burn list of an album is limited to the seven times (remember when it used to be 10?). A burn list of 20 (or any number) iTMS songs, from a variety of different albums is also limited. As the Apple Knowledge Base article referenced above indicates, to overcome this limitation just create a new burn list with different songs in it (for example 19 of your original 20, or 20 plus some new stuff).

Ira is absolutely right.

For those who joined this saga late, the whole point was the apparent loss of the ability to make Audio quality copies on a CD of any combination of AAC formatted songs from Apple's Music Store. The problem seems to have been a glitch caused by one or more of the consequences of the upgrade to ITunes 4.5, QuickTime 6.5.1 and/or Mac OS 10.3.4 (the first two were done simultaneously, the OS upgrade came later and may have contributed to the "cure"). The problem has been solved though why is not totally clear.

> The problem has been solved though why is not totally clear.


Correct.

It's the 'software equivalent' of
smacking the top of the TV set,
or jiggling a loose toilet handle.