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#453580 - 10/26/08 11:25 PM Is my GPU overheating in my white iMac 24"?
diddydustin Offline
New User

Registered: 10/26/08
Posts: 1
For about a few months now my GPU stops functioning correctly after around 15-20 minutes of moderate to heavy usage. This includes playing games (World of Warcraft) or using Photoshop. I downloaded iStat Pro to check the temperatures and found that my GPU diode would show around 80C when things would start acting "funny". Basically, the graphics in the game would go haywire (a lot of noise, random shapes, colors) or "freeze" for 30 seconds to a minute at a time, followed by an attempt to work, then freeze, over and over. I was finding that I could let my computer "cool down" for a while, come back to put a load on the GPU, and then watch iStat and wait for the temperature to rise before I would see the same issues. It is fairly consistent around 78-80C. I am unsure what my GPU was running at before when it was functioning correctly, so I have nothing to compare this temperature too. But 80C seems hot to me.

My iMac 24" is around two years old. 2GB of RAM, Leopard 10.5.5. I was able to successfully load the GPU for over a year and a few months.

This seems fairly obvious to me that the issue is regard to heat at the GPU. My last apartment was very old and EXTREMELY dusty. I'm just curious if this is a common issue. Is this a bad fan somewhere? I tried blowing some compressed air into the back vent combined with a light vacuum to clean out some dust. But I'm afraid to open the iMac as I've heard horror stories.

I know heat is a killer to electronics, however I've just not heard any stories or found solid data on my specific problem. I'm not under Applecare (biggest mistake I ever made). Any idea how much this would probably run me if I took to an Apple store? The nearest Apple store is around an hour away. I'm just not sure what to do here.

Thanks for all your help in advance,
diddydustin


Edited by diddydustin (10/26/08 11:28 PM)
Edit Reason: Added RAM, OSX version

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#453600 - 10/27/08 06:05 AM Re: Is my GPU overheating in my white iMac 24"? [Re: diddydustin]
rahja Offline
MacAuthor

Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 1921
Loc: Vermont
though my 20" iMac is a G5, when I am playing WoW (Argent Dawn. For the Horde!), I have to run a small fan blowing into the back vent other wise I will get what I call "thermal shutdowns"; the computer will just shut down because of heat.

not a great solution, but it works!
_________________________
MacBook 2.4 Ghz · 4 Gb ram · 10.5.6
iMac G5 2.1 Ghz · 2.5 Gb ram · 10.4.11

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#464204 - 03/10/09 09:10 AM Re: Is my GPU overheating in my white iMac 24"? [Re: diddydustin]
NCudmore Offline
New User

Registered: 03/10/09
Posts: 2
Hi,

I've a 'early' 24" 2.61GHz intel iMac with NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT, and I've been getting the same sorts of problems, only they start when the GPU diode hits over 60C ( according to iStat).

I've installed SMC fan control and I can max the fans out and everything will then work fine, once the temperature has dropped back down. Even, Safari and the desktop start getting problems (partial lines of stuck pixels), not just the odd game.

Anyone else getting these problems with the early 24" iMacs?


Neil.

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#468419 - 05/02/09 01:15 AM Re: Is my GPU overheating in my white iMac 24"? [Re: NCudmore]
fdesmet Offline
New User

Registered: 05/02/09
Posts: 1
Yes, same problem here. white iMac 24" 2.16 GHz with the 7300GT graphics card.

After ten minutes of x-plane, GPU temps rise and graphics corruption soon follows. Sometimes the corruption is so bad I have to power down because I can't see _anything_ on the screen--it's all garbled.

Interestingly, this didn't always happen. I used to run x-plane overnight all the time with no trouble. Makes me wonder if there's some drying-out thermal paste on the GPU chip or something which reduces the effectiveness of whatever heat sinking might be associated with the GPU.

Lately I've been using the SMC Fan Control app to crank up the CPU fan to the max speed (3200 RPM) when running x-plane. The CPU fan cools the GPU, too, and I can run x-plane indefinitely when the CPU fan is manually cranked up to the maximum speed. It's kind of annoying to have to hear the fan buzzing like that, and it's even more annoying that the system never raises the fan speed on its own (without SMC Fan Control the CPU fan never goes above the minimum 1000 RPM), but it's a price I'm willing to pay to play x-plane.

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#468432 - 05/02/09 06:32 AM Re: Is my GPU overheating in my white iMac 24"? [Re: fdesmet]
Virtual1 Offline
MacGuru

Registered: 01/20/01
Posts: 10527
Loc: Middle 'o Nowhere
The 24" imac's "graphics card", if you want to call it that, is an odd looking thing. It's a very small board (under 3"x3") with an edge connector that looks very much like a sodimm. from there are heat pipes that extend out at an angle for quite a distance and then meet the radiator.

These two are provided by apple as a single unit, but the design allows the GPU to be replaced/changed without replacing the logic board, which is unusual for an imac. (I'm a little surprised I haven't seen any upgrades available from 3rd parties yet, but I bet we will, eventually)

Because of this, the GPU is never separated from its heat block when serviced. In MOST cases with Apple, chips on heat sinks that are not meant to be taken apart don't use heat sink compound. They use a thermal tab or pad of varying types instead, some of which are glued down to the die and block/spreader. It would not surprise me if the 24" GPU does not use heat sink compound.

Puting that aside for the moment, it's extremely unusual for heat sink compound to dry out, because it's usually smashed under fairly high pressure between the two, with an almost zero-width gap to try to wick air from, and there's excess compound right outside the gap. The purpose of the compound is to span paper-thin gaps in the unequal surfaces between the die and the spreader, which are usually already nearly perfect. Heat sink compound doesn't dry out for the same reason that a wet piece of paper would never dry out if set on the kitchen counter under a flat bottomed plate.

I periodically run into people complaining about Apple applying too much compound which only makes me laugh. Considering the screws that crank down the die, you could dump a few tablespoons of the stuff on the chip before fastening it down and all you'd accomplish is the excess would all squirt out the sides, but the resulting gap would be the same.

Because this process relies on there being too much compound to start with, and presses out the excess, you CANNOT separate them and then reassemble without removing the old compound and adding new. Once you press them together, you go from having too much to having just enough, and then if you separate and reassemble them, you go from having just enough to having almost enough. (and possibly an air bubble/gap) The other possible compound issue is if there's a bubble in the compound. Properly applied compound is placed in a single, bubble-free blob in the middle before assembly, which makes it impossible to get a bubble of no compound between die and block.

Which brings us to the real issue, heat. Temperature changes make things expand, and different materials expand at different rates, and conduct heat differently. If a connection is bad, it can still work. Like two wires in an electronic device that are merely touching but not properly twisted or soldered together. But if subject to vibration, the wires make and break contact and you have a problem. With small things like bonding wires in GPUs, it's not vibration that causes movement, it's heat. So if there's a defect, it may not cause problems until heated. Thus, keeping it cool can delay or mask the problem. This is probably what you're experiencing. Note that this is a problem either inside the GPU itself, or due to the mounting of the GPU to the card, and is likely caused by a GPU manufacturing problem or a GPU manufacturer's specification problem. A good example of a specification defect recently is the Macbook Pro Nvidia Defect. In that case, Nvidia specified lower cooling needs than were actually required, leading to the GPU being damaged by its own heat production. (actually the GPU's attachment to the board is failing due the thermal stress)

I've seen a few 24" imacs with problems similar to yours, I replaced a grapghics card yesterday actually for this, and it would not surprise me if it's the same issue. The GPU makers are competing for customers, and lower heat production is a major selling point, which encourages them to fudge their numbers to get sales, which leads to defective or higher-than-acceptable field-failures in end-products like the imac. With the MBP/8600 issue, it's interesting to note that after the defect was discovered publicly, Nvidia "researched" the problem and notified Apple that none of the chips they bought were affected. Apple got tired of all the repairs and launched their own independent investigation, and found that a small number of the chips were indeed affected, and extended coverage for some of those machines out of their own pocket. It's possible we may see something like this for the new imacs later down the road. Apple typically waits for those machines to fall out of factory (1yr) warranty before announcing repair extension programs.
_________________________
- I work for the Department of Redundancy Department

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#468648 - 05/05/09 05:54 AM Re: Is my GPU overheating in my white iMac 24"? [Re: Virtual1]
cmungs Offline
New User

Registered: 05/05/09
Posts: 2
I am having this same problem with my 24" White iMac with the 7300GT. Started a few months ago and I'm able to live with it via SMC Fan Control, but it's becoming very annoying.

Any advice on a self-fix or a price estimate on what it would take to get it fixed? What have others done to remedy the problem?

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#468776 - 05/06/09 10:53 AM Re: Is my GPU overheating in my white iMac 24"? [Re: cmungs]
Virtual1 Offline
MacGuru

Registered: 01/20/01
Posts: 10527
Loc: Middle 'o Nowhere
if it's under warranty, take it in and get it fixed. you may have to badger them a bit, apple ignores any mention of 3rd party software, so if you go in there telling them Warcraft is causing your computer to crash, they're not going to be very helpful. See if you can find an apple software example, like using iDVD to render a movie while at the same time running iTunes in visualization mode fullscreen. Don't give them an out. (anything without "Apple" on it)
_________________________
- I work for the Department of Redundancy Department

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#468790 - 05/06/09 03:03 PM Re: Is my GPU overheating in my white iMac 24"? [Re: Virtual1]
cmungs Offline
New User

Registered: 05/05/09
Posts: 2
Mine, unfortunately, is not under warranty. It's well beyond that. Does anyone know how much it might cost to have the GPU replaced or fixed? By Apple or a third-party shop?

Here's a screenshot of a particularly bad instance...
http://img18.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenweirdness.tif

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#468845 - 05/07/09 11:36 AM Re: Is my GPU overheating in my white iMac 24"? [Re: cmungs]
Virtual1 Offline
MacGuru

Registered: 01/20/01
Posts: 10527
Loc: Middle 'o Nowhere
You are likely to pay around $300 for the part, and 1.5-2.0 hrs of labor to replace it.
_________________________
- I work for the Department of Redundancy Department

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#469451 - 05/15/09 05:13 AM Re: Is my GPU overheating in my white iMac 24"? [Re: fdesmet]
NCudmore Offline
New User

Registered: 03/10/09
Posts: 2
Sorry I transposed the 6 and the 1 last time, mine is also a 2.16ghz with the NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT card.

Any way, the matter is getting worse here - since the 10.5.7 update confused .

Looking at iStat last couple of days when I started to have more problems, the GPU diode is running upwards of 12-15C more than the heatsink. In fact the heatsink is the coolest about 2 or 3C lower than the GPU, which makes me think some separation is happening, as I type this iStat reports

Ambient 21C
GPU 28C
GPU diode 40C
GPU Heatsink 26C




Edited by NCudmore (05/15/09 05:17 AM)
Edit Reason: typo...

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